Wall Street Won't Touch DeFi Until This Happens

John Gillen speaks with Mike Cagney about why institutional capital has yet to move onchain at scale, despite DeFi’s potential to lower borrowing costs and improve investor returns. Cagney argues that poor usability, custody requirements and inadequate enterprise controls remain the central barriers.

Cagney explains how Navra aims to address those gaps through a unified wallet experience, multi-party custody and AI agents operating within defined guardrails. He also examines Figure’s blockchain-based lending model and the opportunity to extend it across mortgages, auto loans and other credit markets.

The discussion also covers tokenized equities, where Cagney favors native onchain issuance over wrapped shares that rely on automated market makers. His broader thesis is that adoption will be driven by clear economic benefits—including direct access to financing, real-time collateral mobility and greater control over stock-lending income—rather than regulation alone.